May 18, 2021

Alan R. Warren, Radio Host of House Of Mystery, And Author Of 12 True Crime Books

Alan R. Warren, Radio Host of House Of Mystery, And Author Of 12 True Crime Books

Ep:084 Alan R. Warren is the author of 12 published True crime Books, 5 of them have been Number 1 Best Sellers and has produced & hosted in several radio markets including KKNW 1150 A.M. Seattle, KFNX 1100 A.M. Phoenix, KOII 94.5 F.M. Flagstaff.

His show House of Mystery is in its tenth year on NBC in Los Angeles/Riverside/Palm Springs and on other stations as well in Phoenix, Flagstaff, Salt Lake City, Seattle, and Tacoma. It has covered most categories of writers, film makers and documentary or TV shows in most mysterious subjects ( Paranormal, Crime, Religion, Science, History)

 QueerWritersOfCrime.com

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Alan R. Warren's website

Alan's book Murder Times Six

Chasing Ghosts by Dean Cole

So Horrified! podcast on Spotify

Brad Shreve's Website

Requeered Tales.com

Transcript
Brad Shreve:

In this episode, my guest is Alan R. Warren, and we discuss true crime, including a murder of a sixties TV star that you either never heard of, or don't remember. Plus Justene does a book recommendation and had to create a new category for it. Welcome to Queer Writers of Crime, where we feature LGBTQ authors of mystery, suspense and thriller novels. Justene, Alan R. Warren is my guest today. You know who he is.

Justene:

Oh, yes, he has the other mystery podcast.

Brad Shreve:

Yep. The House of Mystery Radio Show. It's actually pretty broad. He's on, uh, NBC radio in a lot of the local markets here in California. And then a few days after that airs, he's pretty much on all the podcast sites. And, uh, he lo different because he's nonfiction, which I usually don't do. This is not going to be a change in format, but Alan has been really supportive of, Queer crime writers. and in fact, he has some on his show and interviews them. he does nonfiction like crime science, paranormal. Yeah. He does true crime,

Justene:

he does true crime and then, you know, he he's branched out, I think in the last few year, year or two into fiction.

Brad Shreve:

Yeah, and he doesn't just, he does like horror and sci-fi even does romance. And he also does LGBT, fiction as well. So that's why I invited him to be on the show.

Justene:

Wonderful. I'm looking forward to hearing him be the interviewee this time.

Brad Shreve:

We had a good conversation. He sent me three or four books. and one of them was his newest book and I was going to read that first, but there was another book that caught my eye and I absolutely had to read it. And because it talks about Kurt Cobain

Justene:

oh,

Brad Shreve:

I'm a huge Nirvana fanatic. They're my favorite band. And so once I saw Kurt's name

Justene:

I'm surprised you have time for something like that with all your Paul Rudd worship.

Brad Shreve:

Okay. You know what I do. I listened to Kurt while I look at Paul on YouTube. So anyway, as soon as I saw that I had to read. that book, but then I did read his other book as well, His most recent book that we talk about, it's about some horrible murders that happened in Canada. and that's very interesting. We talk about Kurt Cobain and the other one, I think that listeners will find interesting is, there is a sixties television star who. was really wild and kinky and was bludgeoned to death. I remember this really well and I talk to people. nobody seems to remember it

Justene:

I do remember this story, but I don't recall the, I don't recall the name of the actor right now.

Brad Shreve:

Well, everybody, after we're done here, everybody can listen in and they'll find out who it was.

Justene:

That sounds terrific. And let me get set that a couple in Canada was that the couple. The well, the, you say the gruesome Canadian murders. What was it? The married couple who abducted girls and did it together.

Brad Shreve:

No.

Justene:

Okay.

Brad Shreve:

different one,

Justene:

Boy, they got so many groups of murders up there in Canada. Good thing. We don't have any other thing like that here in the U S.

Brad Shreve:

and I'm on give people warning. We do talk about gruesome murders, but we don't get gross about it. So, just wanna make sure people are like, oh, I didn't wanna hear about that. I got one more thing to say to you. I really missed you at the recording yesterday.

Justene:

oh, you know, a it's Yeah. that was a three hour time investment, unfortunately. And I just did not have three hours this week. Had it been another week, I would have probably done it.

Brad Shreve:

Yeah, I w I want to tell the listeners, There's a podcast called So Horrified! And what they do on So Horrified! Is they watch really bad horror films and have guests on the show and you discuss the movie. And I had asked Justene, would you like to join us? And she had a hellacious. workweek. And it was also one of those weeks where she was struggling to find a good book

Justene:

But I found one

Brad Shreve:

Yes, it was like an unanswered prayer because she, uh, Couldn't find one of them. Boom. She found one that she really enjoys. She told me she's looking forward to talking about. This show comes out this Friday, the 21st or Saturday, the 22nd. And I'm talking in May, 2021 and it was called So Horrified! They allow the guests to choose the movie if they'd like. And I did, I chose Blood Beach from around 1981. I remember watching it in high school. I don't remember it being as bad as It was,

Justene:

Yeah,

Brad Shreve:

We had so much fun. so if anybody wants to watch it. It's Blood Beach, the company that filmed the movie went under immediately after this movie came out. So the only way you can find it is on YouTube, or you can just listen in when we talk about it and it comes out this Friday and Saturday, I'll do another reminder next Tuesday. Justene and I wish she could have joined us. and now you can talk about books.

Justene:

Now we can talk about, well, at least one book.

Brad Shreve:

Okay. One book yes.

Justene:

Okay. So I, as you say, I got really lucky this week, as I often do, because I go through so many titles. it is a paranormal book and it's been a long time since I've done a paranormal book. And so it really, it was really very much, very much the, the fun ride it's called Chasing Ghosts. by Dean Cole It is book, one of the Quentin Strange Mysteries and the main character as you might guess, is Quentin Strange from the cover. He looks a lot like Harry Potter, and he is a photographer with a new job as a, at a local newspaper. And he's out with the, up and coming hard driving reporter. Who is a little bit, you didn't miss their first assignment together. but she's also a little full of herself. She makes her not particularly unlikeable. It just makes her annoying. I'm one of those people that you want to sigh about, so they are going off. To be in a haunted house. This is in England. They're going to spend a weekend at a haunted house and there was going to be a ghost hunter team there for people from, I think it's the Plucky Ghost, Investigators, they have a medium along for the ride. And then there are three other people who are part of this close. There are other guests at this, at this large manner, but. three other people who were at this goes to venture kind of weekend, a cutie young, rich couple who were just all over each other and have this little Pomeranian dog. And then this gorgeous young man, who is a author, writes paranormal mysteries, but. Is that a writer's block. So he's got to come along here and try to get some inspiration again, cause his deadline in the second book is coming up. So these are three main characters. Quentin is the, uh, photographer. Cat is the reporter and Will is the handsome stranger. There's a little bit of romance. I think they even said heart flutter at some point, but.

Brad Shreve:

Okay.

Justene:

You know that that's a tiny part of it. it's really more of a friendship developing. There's not really a fall in love, happily ever after kind of moment. I believe that it's more like the guy that in your first book who ran the bath house, he then shows up again in the second book, but there wasn't, it's not a romance.

Brad Shreve:

Your heart can flutter without it turning into a real romance. I mean, I heart flutters every time I see Paul Rudd yeah.

Justene:

I just can't believe that's a running shtick around here, Of all the running shticks So anyway, they're off at this mansion. And one of the things I really, really like about it is that the ghosts are real, And it's not a, Scooby-Doo kind of ending. I know you prefer Scooby-Doo pesky kids. but the ghosts are real throughout this whole thing. So it is a, adventurous little tale, Quentin. Had been having, uh, visions and dreams for awhile. He's his first love died, in a horrible boating accident, which you'll read about. And he hasn't been with anybody else for any of the time since and now he's recently started having dreams about this guy and then other premonitions and other dreams. At some point, he even started taking, psychiatric medication to try to put those to bed, but. Just, he stops taking it after the first night here, because there's just too much going on for him to sense a, it overrides the medication, but he can't quite understand what's going on. And it was much safer to get all the warnings at all the spirits for handing out than it would have been to take that medication, the three of them, manage to work together, again, it's not like Scooby-Doo team, they're all kind of on the same page, but going at it from their different directions. Um, the ghost hunters are not particularly intriguing, but the medium is, is quite intriguing. She appears to be a real medium and some of the philosophical in the B in the middle of it. Um, The medium is talking very philosophically about the afterlife and the like, and she's got some very interesting, uh, connections between ghosts which linger on and the soul which passes on. there are people who believe in the soul passing on who think that doesn't mean that ghosts exists. and people who believe that the ghost is stuck here. so they haven't passed on yet and she had a very different take and they spend a lot of time in long talks about her philosophy and approach to life. It is at at its end scary. Don't read it in the dark it's it's creepy. and you don't know what's going to happen next. It is, quite the read. It is getting a, my new category of a recommendation, a spooky recommendation.

Brad Shreve:

Spooky. That's a fun one. And I'm amazed. I'm amazed. It's been this long since you've done a paranormal, cause you really liked paranormal.

Justene:

One, I do like paranormals. Um, and I did a bunch in a row, but I've have not, I've had trouble after reading. What seemed to be the cream of the crop? I had trouble finding another one that was really worth recommending. And this one is.

Brad Shreve:

and I'm going to really have to try it out because I have never read a paranormal mystery. I have looked on Amazon and from the blurbs and the opening pages, there clearly are a lot bad ones out there

Justene:

Oh, yes.

Brad Shreve:

know from your suggestions, there are plenty of good ones as well, but

Justene:

Yeah, but I think this one is a good starting point. Cause it's, it's really a mystery involving ghosts.

Brad Shreve:

Okay. So Chasing Ghosts, I'm writing it down and I'm notating that it's spooky.

Justene:

And it's Dean Cole, and you can find his website at Dean Cole. books.com, And find out a little more about him. I'm hoping that he's going to continue writing this, series before he turns his eye towards anything else.

Brad Shreve:

As we tell our listeners, send them a message and let him know.

Justene:

Oh yeah. And please, pick up this book, if you like the paranormals. I, I think it's been a while before we told her listeners what ReQueered Tales is. It's a, small publishing company. There are three of us who own it and do everything ourselves. And what we do is we bring back classic mysteries. Our sweet spot is from the Stonewall riots to the turn of the century. We have some after that, however, And we have some, you know, sci-fi mysteries and the, like, I, try to mostly talk about the mysteries on here. many of these books were languishing and off the market for a long time before we brought them back. The one coming out this week is a novel by Nikki Baker. It's a third and her Virginia Kelly series. It's called Long Goodbyes. I've talked about that a lot. Cheryl Head is then the forward. And then after that, our next release will be Little Miss Evil by Lev Raphael. It's the fourth in his Nick Hoffman series. And it's a great mystery. And the, the forward on that one is going to be by Meg Perry.

Brad Shreve:

oh, Meg Perry. She was a guest. Cheryl Head was a guest and Lev Raphael has been a guest twice and he's coming up again, I think in three weeks cause he has a new book as well as the book that you're doing coming out. So, I love what you guys have done at ReQueered Tales. And as you said, it's mostly old mysteries though. You do make exceptions for like sci fi when it's like an amazing author, like Felice Picano.

Justene:

and we also do some literary mystery. So Robert Ferro is a writer that we, We have brought back and has been very, very popular with our buyers.

Brad Shreve:

Well, thank you for doing that.

Justene:

Well, you're welcome.

Brad Shreve:

Okay. Again, the guest is Alan R. Warren. He's coming up right after the transition here and also listen to So Horrified! This upcoming weekend. And hear me talk about Blood Beach. Alan R Warren is the author of 12 published true crime books. Five of them have been number one bestsellers and has produced and hosted several radio markets, including KKNW 1150 AM in Seattle, KFNX 1100 AM in Phoenix and K O II 94.5 FM in Flagstaff. Thank you. for being on the show, Alan.

Alan R Warren:

Oh, it's my pleasure. My pleasure.

Brad Shreve:

You're one of the few guests I've had on the show. that isn't a fiction writer. And I want to let people know why. Alan has been very active, at least on Facebook, involved in some of the gay websites and author websites. His House of Mystery radio show. covers paranormal, crime, religion, science history in a variety of media outlets. But in, addition to that, he features interviews with queer LGBTQ crime writers as well. So ,that's why I'd like to have him on this week. And. Alan had me on a guest on his show. And he'd never said I want to be a guest on your show, but I invited him anyway. Okay.

Alan R Warren:

That's because I'm shy.

Brad Shreve:

So here we are. You sent me several of your books and your most recent book is Murder Time Six, and it's about a grisly murder of six people in the Canadian wilderness. And it was my intent to read that book right away. But I got distracted. I'm going to tell you why. You also sent Mysterious Celebrity Deaths. When I opened that up, the very first person is Kurt Cobain. I'm on Nirvana fanatic. wasn't even a choice. I had to go straight for the Kurt Cobain story. I want to ask about that. Like most Nirvana fans, I was an, a, not a fan of Courtney Love, but I do think the rumors that Courtney had Kurt murdered were ridiculous. Now I'm conflicted. Because the interviews you had in that book one minute, I absolutely believed he was murdered. Not necessarily by Courtney and the next minute I was absolutely certain it was suicide. Can you shed some light on the story and the controversy related to that?

Alan R Warren:

Yeah, that's a, tough one. It's complicated. But the bottom line is, the evidence shows that it was suicide. It does not show that he, uh, was killed. and if you've read the first part, you know, that I know Courtney. And so, because I knew her, I was trying to stay out of. using my opinion in, in the interviews. I wasn't trying to go that way, but I'll tell you if one thing that I, that sticks out as every person, like Soaked in Bleach, the documentary and, and every person associated with that, including the, uh, private detective Green, they all lied and they created a story to tell and they changed. every person they had on that documentary, they changed their interview to make it sound like they thought it was suicide. And so that in itself, you know, especially in these crazy days of all of this, uh, conspiracy and stuff going on out there, when someone actually lies, they create a story to try and get their point across. I X them out. so I you know,, maybe it didn't come across that way, but in a lot of those interviews, those people were lied, and they made up a story. So to me, I can show you the story that they said. That they were telling us, but they lied. And for me that means you get exed out. That's like an Alex Jones thing. Its kind of like if you're creating a story, I don't trust you. And anything you have to say, I can't take that on, on any value. so for me, the only evidence we have is that he killed himself. You know, and it's really easy, especially nowadays, because people love to cancel. They love to hate who they don't understand and who they don't like. And Courtney Love is not. the most likable person. I can tell you that personally, she she's up and down like a toilet seat. She can just go off in a second. It's very hard to deal with that. and I understand why a lot of people don't like her because she'll scream at someone called them names. She just goes off totally uncontrolled. And I get it. So, but you cannot convict someone because you hate them. And that's sort of, kind of our trend lately. It seems to be what everyone's doing because, Oh, I don't like this person, everybody jumps on them and, everything, but that doesn't change the facts. It doesn't change what really happened. And maybe we just like to think, Oh yeah, you know, she's such a hag that we have to, uh, it has to be her and we blame her and it just makes it easier. cause we can wipe. out to two things with one get rid of her and, Kurt couldn't have killed himself type thing. It was its kind of a thing that we want I think, but no, personally, no. any evidence we have, um, shows towards suicide.

Brad Shreve:

Why do you think the stories they were telling so many lies was something being covered up or.

Alan R Warren:

No, not at all, not at all. In fact, you know, and I've, and I've talked to the cops that were involved in it and even the followup investigation, and the thing is, Green, who was the private eye that Courtney hired. I think he just jumped on, um, he wanted some money. He was, he was on about a book and a show and making some money. And in fact, even, even when I asked him to be on the show to represent his documentary, he wouldn't go on it unless I had Courtney. And if only if we paid them, I was like, Oh yeah. Okay. Whatever. But every single person we've talked to that you have on that, documentary you would call. Um, it's not true because they lied and we have them on our interview telling us this isn't true. That's not what I said. They've changed this. so that for me, just, it just sort of speaks volumes. we have to be realistic about it and, and, and, um, like I said, I really tried to make sure people know that. Yeah, sure. Maybe I'm a little bit on Courtney's side because I know her, but at the same time, if, if I thought for a second, she had something to do with it and that she was part of that scheme to kill him. I'd have no problem coming out and saying it.

Brad Shreve:

Well, I didn't mean to put you on the hot seat.. I did miss the part where you said that you knew her, so, or at least I forgot that part.

Alan R Warren:

Yeah. I used to hang out up in Capitol Hill. She was there all the time. and we all did coffee together and stuff and, and, and it's, you know, it's just, it was part of the scene at the time in the nineties, it was the grunge, it was what was happening. And I worked at one of the bars that they played in and, I dealt with a lot of. the grunge bands as they so became, you know? And, um, it's not a big deal, but I know I've been sort of some people that said that to me, when I started doing these interviews years ago, some people kind of backed at me, you know, started sending emails. So yeah, you're just in with it. And it's like, no, not really. we were acquaintances we'd hung out together at the time when, but I certainly. I'm just telling you, no, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna make up a story. Uh, and we've proved several times how, the detective Green did make up all of these stories. And so I think that was my point of those interviews was just to show the truth. You can still think she did it. You can still think she's guilty, but not by the evidence he's putting forward.

Brad Shreve:

Yeah, And like I said, I thought it was unlikely given Kurt's mental health background and everything else that just to me, it was no shock. It, it hurt, but it was no shock at all.

Alan R Warren:

Yeah, I think, I think we have to realize, you know, the mind of someone when you get real popular and, and you're going out. I think when I heard, um, Billy Corgan of, the Smashing Pumpkins say this best, but people don't understand how hard it is to all of a sudden become real famous and everywhere you go, everyone loves you. Then he said, you go to the next stage where everybody says, well, it's not as good as your first album. You know what you should do. And then the third stage where you're no longer. that person anymore. And it's very, very depressing. and, um, there was a lot of things going on in his life. He was doing terrible, just an amount of drugs. He was so addicted and he was so, so screwed up His mind was just gone. He was doing so much heroin at the time. And for so long, you know, and he'd been in and out of rehab and tried to kill himself before. And he was just going through a terrible, terrible time. And, you know, if anything, what Courtney would be guilty of is not being there for him and not really being the support that he needed and, not helping him.

Brad Shreve:

And that was reflected in the book.

Alan R Warren:

Well, yeah, and that's the truth. I mean, that is how it is, you know, but at the same time, look at the problem she was having. She was renting the top floor of a hotel in Hollywood and she was 24/7 doing drugs and partying for weeks at a time. She wasn't in any better state than he was So I don't know. I don't think she's capable of helping him, but if anything, it was just a mess and, um, it's one of the unfortunate things, I guess, that, that comes sometimes with fame.

Brad Shreve:

I thought she was great in The People vs Larry Flint, but she seemed To be playing herself.

Alan R Warren:

Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I think, I think she's calmed down a lot from what I see, she's doing a lot of good stuff now back East in New York and she seems to be pretty calm and, um, we'll see kind of how it, how it goes, but, she's much better now that she's out of the big spotlight.

Brad Shreve:

Now the other one I want to talk about is Bob Crane. And for those that don't know, Bob Crane was Colonel Hogan on Hogan's Heroes. And if you think Colonel Hogan was a womanizer. He had nothing on Bob Crane, uh, To say the least Bob had a very salacious lifestyle. And what I find curious, and I want you to shed some light on is given his lifestyle and the brutal murder that he had. I talked to people in most, aren't familiar with the story in any way, shape or form. And you would think the tabloids would have been all over it. Why don't people know about this story?

Alan R Warren:

It's too old. Even the guy that wrote the forward for me, he writes in San Francisco and he was going, uh, and I give him the, the manuscript before we published it. And I said, can you do a forward? He said, sure. and then he comes back to me and he goes, um, who's Bob Crane? And he's 40 it's. Okay. It just sort of, um, it shocked me, but if you're not into retro television, like watching ME TV or something like that, um, you might really. Not know, because Bob Crane, after. Hogan's Heroes really kind of faded away and then he got killed and it's forgotten. So if you don't watch reruns or old shows, you would probably have no idea. cause we, you know, we forget, this is what, this is the sixties and seventies. That's a long time ago. A lot of people we know were born here or in the eighties and nineties. So I think it's just a lot of people don't know. If you say Hogan, they have a better chance of remembering than you, if you say Bob Crane, that's for sure. Um, but I knew Bob Crane because of his radio show, he was just fantastic. I w I just idolized him on the radio and worse. He had the most ad-libs skill that was going at the time. And that was before Hogan's Heroes. It was amazing. He was kind of like a Howard stern, but toned down way down, but he had this way of just being loose and being himself. And being kind of free, which was really, really tough in the sixties, in such a uptight sort of time. Um, but he was, he was, he was kind of, pulling it off. So that's how I knew him and Hogan's Heroes was they're of course we all knew that, but I could take it or leave it actually.

Brad Shreve:

and no. one was ever charged for that murder. Is that right?

Alan R Warren:

Well, John Carpenter was charged, but he did get, um, acquitted. So he, there was one person, he was the guy that, um, he was actually, a sales rep and he worked for Sony, I think originally, and then went to Samsung. Uh, but so back then, of course, V you know, VHS and videotapes was just coming onto the market. And so he was selling it, because it was part of Hollywood. It wasn't so common. in normal people's homes, but it was, common amongst Hollywood and Bob Crane met him and totally fell in love with the idea of being able to record, um, his, uh, sex sessions. That was kind of the real reason I was going to be, but that was it. He thought this is amazing. And then I can watch the sex movies anytime I want at home. So he was thrilled and him and John became close friends and in fact, John started filming half of his sex sessions for him. And, uh, the two of them were just having a grand old time. So that was kind of the, how they met and the premise behind it. And, um, it's a pretty, um, complicated story too. There's a lot of things going on in that story. It's hard to decide if Carpenter did it or not, um, You know, some people blamed, uh, ha but you know, the guy that played Newkirk in Hogan's Heroes and some people blamed his ex-wife because he was going through a terrible divorce. But I also look at, um, even remember he was sleeping with a lot of, a lot of ladies and a lot of them were married and a lot of them, he filmed them all and, um, there's probably an upset husband or boyfriend out there somewhere. And that's a big possibility as well because whoever did kill him by blungened him. I mean, they beat him and then they tied that, that string around his neck and it was a, it was a passion hate crime. This wasn't just a robbery. This was not just a. something gone wrong. This was, this was passion. This was, this was a lot of anger here. So, uh, this is someone that's involved with him in some sort of way. and so I don't think we'll ever really know what happened. Um, and they didn't collect the DNA. In fact, one of the detectives, um, they even filmed, uh, a lot of semen on his leg and when he was in the bed killed and they just threw it away. You. Yeah. I mean, they just, you know, and in fact, the, the cop that I interviewed, he said, well, when he said that to the, uh, medical examiner, the medical examiner said, well, what's that going to prove? Which is he got laid before he got killed, because he said, why don't we keep it? You know, it's like, so the mentality wasn't there.

Brad Shreve:

And who wants that around?

Alan R Warren:

Yeah. So, you

Brad Shreve:

what your description of the scene was? I mean, there was a lot of blood,

Alan R Warren:

Oh, it's terrible. Yeah, I've got all the pictures and I got all the files and, and, uh, even, even, uh, you know, it's really, really sad it's because there's one son, from the second wife who was divorcing him at the time was so mad at him. He took a lot of those pictures and a lot of those sex things, and he built a website and he sold it to people to watch his dad having sex. So, I mean, that was pretty anger. So I got a lot of those too. Um, The sons are not scared to share and what they have.

Brad Shreve:

Well, and something that you brought up that was interesting is this was the seventies. they didn't have. cameras that there were where the size of a button. These, this was big camera equipment, and these ladies knew they were being recorded. And it seemed fine with that.

Alan R Warren:

Oh, yeah. Yeah. And in fact that's sort of, it, he even, uh, would watch it back with a lot of them and he would have, um, Carpenter join in. He would have different people join in with them. It was just, it was unbelievable what he was doing. And a lot of them were married and a lot of them were married to wealthy executives and, uh, Even, even commercial people, you know, you know, so it's, it's one of those weird stories. It's, it's, there's so many different things going on here. And, if anything, probably because of that, uh, is it, you know, that controversy um, yeah, I don't think the cops were as interested as they should have been, but,

Brad Shreve:

Yeah, it doesn't sound like it.

Alan R Warren:

Well, plus they run a terrible scene. Uh, you know, he's in there and he's dead and they let people come in and out and smoke and they take pictures. And, uh, people were using the phone in his Bob Crane's apartment. They didn't rope it off. Um, yeah, it was just, it was just totally you just kind of look at, yeah. So it's just like, it was almost nonchalant, like who cares? It was just, it's crazy. It's just a crazy, uh, scene and the crazy murder and all the way down.

Brad Shreve:

I want to talk about your book, Murder Times Six. but before we do, I want to talk a little bit about you. You have a really diverse educational background. How did you end up in radio with so many other degrees and things that you studied?

Alan R Warren:

Well, because ever since I was a kid, I was a, uh, a radio guy. I was listening to radio as far back as I can remember. Uh, crystal radios, you name it? I had it and I that's all I did. I lived in a fantasy world of radio. So, Uh, th the hard thing is because I was, uh, on the spectrum. Um, I had a real problem communicating and I couldn't talk. And so of course my parents kind of said, well, you know, you'll never be on radio. Just, just put that out of your mind right now. You're just, you're not going to anywhere with that, you know? And, um, and you know, and I see exactly what they mean. You know, I couldn't even get on a bike till I was about. I think 13 and I couldn't ride one till I was about 15 and even then not very well. So I'm real clumsy could hardly speak and, um, real problem with communicating. And so, uh, that's the last place you'd think I'd go, but I want it to so badly that I got myself into radio, but in the backend, uh, producing and, uh, engineering and working in the studio itself and working with other shows. So they would be doing it. The star would be on and I would record them and write their scripts and do a lot of things on the backside. and, and at that time too, I never thought I would ever actually get on the speaker side. It was a complete surprise and it was an accident. And it was just because I did an interview with, um, who, uh, which isn't that great. But Judith Baker, who was. a girlfriend of Lee Harvey Oswald at the time that he shot the president. And I had a sit down with her and recorded it and it did really well. And then a station called and said, would you like to do a show? And that's sort of how it happened, but it certainly wasn't planned.

Brad Shreve:

Well, you have me curious then, which came first becoming a radio personality or your interest in true crime.

Alan R Warren:

Oh, well, you know, um, I'm actually not that interested in true crime. Uh, um, no, I'm not. I just, what happened was, um, Criminology was my minor in college and, and university. It was just, um, I loved the legal profession itself. I love the, the rules and the it's hard to explain, but there's something about it. But music was more of my passion. Uh, you know, music mathematics would be, it, it comes natural computers, um, but it just sort of was something I, uh, fell into for, for fun. And what it was was I worked with so many of the cops and met so many and so many. different stories. And then when I got onto the radio, then some of them were saying, well, um, could you write an article for us? And I was just cause writing scripts and then writing articles and, and, uh, then a publisher approached me and I started writing books. So I kinda got into it that way. And I think that the strength of what I realized was when I go and meet people like killers or meet in prison, people say, well, how can you do that? Um, I have very little emotion toward it, and I think that's me being on the spectrum. I'm in this fog. So I could sit down and talk about anything and it doesn't affect me. like it does people that are not on the spectrum. They seem to be emotional and they ask a lot of emotional questions and stuff and I can cut to the chase and, and sit in a room and talk with a killer about the details. and it doesn't phase me. And, uh, I'm not a sociopath. I feel things, but I just mean that I can just, um, I don't know. It just, it's one of those things that I can do that I have very, very little problem with. So I do it, I guess that's the best way.

Brad Shreve:

That was something I was curious about. You you've had these one-on-one interviews with, with killers and serial killers, and you had a letter exchange with Hannibal the cannibal. And I was wondering if it clouds your outlook on life, but it doesn't sound like

Alan R Warren:

Uh, no. Well there's times, like I, you know, I still feel, um, and it does affect me afterwards sometimes, but. I, I don't know if it really, I I'm too close to myself to tell you how it has an effect. Um, I don't, I don't feel like it does, but it probably does. Um, so as you know, it's one of those, I'm too close to the object to say, but I think for sure it, um, I don't think it, yeah, it's weird. Cause I don't think I'm surprised by it. Um, and most of the time when you meet killers, they're not any different than the people you meet in a supermarket. And so I think that, um, in fact I've met loonier people out on the road than I have in, uh, in, in a, in an institution. Like, so it really, you know, um, so it, it. I I'm, I'm more scared of people I've seen, uh, on the corner of the road, uh, picketing mask wearing or something, you know, or don't take the vaccine and all this. And I see people with no logic doing these things, and they're much more aggressive and vocal and violent than some of the worst serial killers I've met. So I don't know, they certainly don't make any more sense than the serial killers, but

Brad Shreve:

Well, I, I can relate to, I lived in Hollywood for a short time and for the listeners that aren't from California. Hollywood is not paved in gold. It's it's the exact opposite. And, uh, yeah, I've seen you see some interesting people out there on the sidewalk there. That's for sure.

Alan R Warren:

Yeah. Yeah. It's endless.

Brad Shreve:

I'm curious through your interviews and the exchanges that you have. If you have an opinion on this, Let's mainly let's talk about serial killers. Do you think they're born or life experiences make them that way or does it vary?

Alan R Warren:

I think it's both I, life experience itself doesn't seem to do it. It's not logical, uh, too many people, uh, you know, I've met, I've interviewed serial killers that have had almost identical upbringing to mine with the alcoholic father and just the, almost the scenarios. Exactly the same. I have no interest in killing, not at all. You know, I love animals. I'm not cooking them like some of these people. So it isn't. Just that it's, it's what you're born with. And then you deal with this circumstance. See, and sometimes people are not capable of dealing with the circumstance that they're given. I was able to deal with circumstances like you were able to deal. Like we all have things and someone with the same life and lifestyle you might've had. Could be out there doing bad things. Um, and it's because they were not equipped to deal with it. So something wrong in their mind, uh, you know, somewhere there was something that happened when they were born. It's something we're born with or they're not capable. Um, and that's, that's, that's where I leave it. Cause I don't go any further. Cause that's the best I can describe. Uh, you know, I'm not a doctor and I'm not a psychiatrist, but that's. That's the only way I can sort of make it work. And I don't believe someone's born evil. I don't believe in the concept of evil, you know, evil as an entity, you know, like I'm possessed and now I'm going to become a killer. I, you know, I don't buy that for a second, but you know, the mind is strong, it's powerful and it makes up a lot of things. And, and we, we are very gullible. And we believe in a lot of things because of our feelings. So I, but I don't buy it for a second.

Brad Shreve:

I think I agree with you. This is really complicated. I don't know. It'll it will be interesting someday when we really have a good idea, a good grasp of just what's going on in the human mind. It's been take a long time. it's it's the final frontier.

Alan R Warren:

Yeah. If we make it, it'll be, you know, hundreds of years from now, before they really get. A total grasp of all that, because it's so entwined with our emotions and what causes our emotions and the reactions and stuff. It's, there's so many things, you know, do we have freewill or is it something that's decided before we even decide that that's what we're going to do, right? Is there's a lot of things that are pretty deep and it causes me too much grief to think about it.

Brad Shreve:

What's your feel about the explosion of all the true crime podcasts that has happened over the past couple of years?

Alan R Warren:

Ooh, it gets me into trouble here. Um, I w when you say take it or leave it because, um, I think people just listen. I, I I've had, uh, true and I still do, uh, people that do podcasts in true crime that come on the show and they're. They cohost during service, certain episodes. Um, but I'm not a super fan of podcasts. Um, and I think the explosion is just filling the need. It's just like, uh, all the TV shows you see in the networks, it's just, it's gonna have its run of 10 years and then fade out just like the paranormal did the last 10 years, you know, it's everywhere you looked and now it's hard to find it's there, but not like it was, I think it will be the same. Um, The only problem with the true crime podcasts are the most of them are not very good. Um, and, and, and it's not always their fault. A lot of it is because, uh, you know, they're trying to cover cases. So they got one week and they're going to do a, an an hour, hour and a half podcast on a crime. And so they've got to research it within a week. Um, so they're getting all their information off the internet, you know, off of articles and papers and whatever else or other people's books. So it's all second hand. And, um, a lot of times they're not very accurate. They miss things. And, um, so I'm, I'm sort of, I, I stay away from it for the most part, because I will get frustrated when I hear them tell, talking about a story. I know. And it's like, well, that's not exactly right. And they forgot they didn't mention this and that's not always their fault. They just don't have enough time. You know, and the explosion will fade away right now. People are just looking to fill that need. Um, and it's already starting to become re repetitive, right? You're starting to see the say how many more movies can you watch on Ted Bundy? How many more stories can you watch on some of these people and over and over and over again. And it's all saying primarily the same facts because they don't go very deep. Um, The most of them are in it for that. Most of them are in it because they're riding the wave and you know, all these shows you see on television, uh, they just kind of go over the same thing. But once we've heard about Ted Bundy, I don't know, 10 times his kind of a bit much, but for me,

Brad Shreve:

I have never been a fan of them. I haven't heard any that I like. Justene who does the book recommendations uh, at the beginning of the show, she's huge podcast fanatic much more than I am, and she's always recommending shows to me and she recommended Murder and Martinis and I don't generally talk. badly by another podcast, but fortunately they went off the air starting in February. So I can speak my mind about this show. Uh, it was fun in the beginning, but after several episodes, it was, it was 55 minutes of banter and their personalities and how adorable we are together. And then five minutes of a murder that seemed like it had been researched on Wikipedia.

Alan R Warren:

yeah. Well, that's kind of the problem and that's, you know, that's it, and for the most part, most of them are. So I just leave it at that because it is what it is, but you have to look at it like entertainment. And if you're not into the personality of the people, or if you're bored with them, you're not going to like it. So, um, I think that I got to keep it separate when I do, when we do interviews with people, we do it. Uh, the interview part, and then we do our banter. All of that gets on the radio show itself, but the podcast part of it that gets put on afterwards is primarily the interview. Because I find podcasts, listeners don't want to hear that they don't want to hear our banter or the people that listen to us on radio, know us. And they're there. They're looking to hear what we have to say about what's going on today. So, you know, we get on and we talk about different things going on and we kind of make, I like to make people laugh. So primarily the whole show is I want people to smile throughout it. Um, you know, we do have the interview and it's, you're still a little bit more serious and it's more about the writer or the story or something. And so, um, that part of it, I don't joke around with, we just kind of do the show and, uh, but the banter part, we kind of make a lot of fun of things and we try to, I try to make people laugh. I don't want them to be. Uptight. So we're not a serious show, but I think that, um, I keep that separate from podcast part, the podcast world, or complain about that if you do too much,

Brad Shreve:

Now get to Murder Times Six, this is your latest book that you've written and it came out last year. And as I I've read 50% of it, and I'm actually glad I didn't finish it because I don't want to give away anything anyway, but you expressed to me why this book is so important now, and I want you to share that.

Alan R Warren:

Well for me, I think that, um, it's really important. Um, With all my true crime books. I really want people to understand that, um, I don't focus necessarily on all the gruesomeness of the murders. It's more about the concept of the how the justice system, um, works for everybody involved in it. In this particular case, you're talking about a guy that got put away for murdering a family of six and raping the two granddaughters and killing them. And, um, the way the justice system works is of course he gets six, um, second degree murder convictions, but on second degree murder convictions, you serve them all at the same time. It's not one after another. So this man is up for parole here in July. This is a man that murdered six people, just so he could rape the grandchildren. Uh, you know, so he said he's a really bad person. And does not deserve to be out. But, uh, if this is, and, and it's, I know this case is in Canada, but even Rod Sadler, who just put out that book, a Killing Woman, it's the exact same scenario with an American case. And that guy's up for parole as well. It's the same thing because it's how both systems work. Um, we want to rehabilitate in our mind and put these people out, but there's no, absolutely no way this person should be out and should be your neighbor. Absolutely no, no way that it should be allowed.

Brad Shreve:

Well, something, as I was reading it and it kept making me more and more angry and I wanted to throw my Kindle against the wall. I don't get this. this man went to this campground and watched the family one night. The next night, he goes back with a 22 walks right into the campground and kills them all. Why is he up for second degree murder?

Alan R Warren:

Oh, you see, with a lot of these cases, what happens is he he's killed all six. All we end up with with the bodies. And in this particular case, all six of them were burned so badly, even after all the, the, the, you know, testing and lab and all of the forensics. We can't even tell you anything if they were raped or not. So all of our evidence has to come from the killer themselves. And so therefore they only give you, um, uh, enough to do second degree. There's no way we could prove intent. How can you prove that he premeditated it? Um, because you know, as it goes, we didn't, he didn't tell the police initially that he was stalking them. As far as they knew, he just came across. the family, shot them. And in fact, at first, and this is, and this is another one. When he killed all six, he told them it was for theft. He was, he stole their boat and he stole a big pile of things from them. They had a camper and a truck and a car and all this stuff. He stole these things from them and that's why he killed them. So. That's what they had at the time. So they convicted him of the second degree murders and the theft and robbery and all this stuff, because that's what they had. Um, it was Sergeant Eastham that found out later in talking to him that there was a lot more to it. And then, then we found out even more. And then even me talking to them, found out even more and, and we'll never really know, um, To be honest, you can only cause you've got the word of a killer. Right. Uh, we don't really know, um, except for what he tells us, how much is true. And with like any person like that, they usually tell you what they think you want them to hear. That's usually some sort of manipulation. There's some sort of thing behind what they're doing. It's not just straight forward and, you know, You can't rely on it. Um, but with my conversation, you could tell he, you know, and how do I say this? You know, when he had the two girls and he took him back to his cabin, you know, for, for sex, the youngest girl, um, she she's six or

Brad Shreve:

Eleven.

Alan R Warren:

Okay. So she's 11 and, um, He killed her right away. And to me, he said that he was so frustrated because she didn't know how to do anything. He just shot her in the head and I'm thinking so, and, and he said it to me in the way of like, you know, when you, when you're driving somewhere or you're go somewhere and there's something that really bothers you about a store or parking lot or something, and you complain to someone and you want them to agree. So he complained to me. That she knew nothing about basically sex is what he's talking about. She didn't know how to do anything. So he just shot her in the head. Like almost he wanted me to say, yeah, she deserved it type thing, or to agree with him. Like, you know what I mean? So he said it in this mannerism almost like, yeah, you know, she deserved it and I'm thinking, and this guy's had for parole and, and then people saw them over happen. But no, listen, I've got the facts in there. It does happen. 30% of our people get out. The average time a lifer gets out from prison is 22 and a half years. One third of them re-offend one third of them. Okay. So don't think that they don't get out. They do. And it's so important that people pay attention because these people are good. Yeah. That'll be your nei- do you want that guy being your neighbor? You know, or if you have kids or grandkids, do you want that guy living next door when he can be so nonchalant to take someone's life because an 11 year old didn't know how to perform for him? Uh, you know, I just, yeah. And, and don't think it doesn't again, I can add on that. He, um, has already been pre-approved for six day passes unescorted. So he's going to be able to leave the prison as soon as COVID is over or settled down or in control, the prison is going to give him a six passes. He can just walk out of prison for six different days in the year. And he, as long as he comes back that night, it's fine. Yeah. And you didn't initially tell me that you, you did tell me that it was important to you because he was, coming up for parole that summer. and I, and I thought when I started the book, I thought, well, there's no chance he's going to get parole. And then as I read the book and saw that he got those day passes, I'm like, What the hell there is a chance There is a huge chance and you look at the numbers and it's the same in the U S it's not any different U S and Canada have. It's very similar with their murder, um, and the way they run the system and, and the way, you know, with the parole boards, you've got to remember that they're there to, um, be successful, successful to them is to get people out, to get people as they call it rehabilitated. So, so they're, they're, they're, they're judged on their rehabilitation. So that's how many people actually get out. So they're, you know, they're there to protect, not protect they're there to, um, make sure that criminals get the chance to get out. And be rehabilitated in their mind. And so you've got to remember that's their job and that's how they're judged. If they keep the majority of people in they're not going to stay in their job very long. And they're certainly not going to go any further. And I don't want it to sound like we need to attack them. It's the system that needs to change. We need to change that what we're doing with it. And if you read the book later, you'll see that there's a. One of the family members that, you know, cause they all send in their statements, you know, like, you know, this is what had happened and he shouldn't get out because I'm devastated, you know, their, their personal experience with, with what happened in the murders and why he shouldn't get out. And I put one in because, uh, it was returned from the parole board saying it was mean. And when you see it, I want people to read it and realize there's not even a swear word in it. And it's too mean. Because someone, it was just, it's a little too mean. Can you change the way it's worded? And I'm thinking, this is someone you took six lives from these people, and they're really, really devastated. So they're writing how they feel. That's what they're supposed to do. It's, you know, it's, that's what it is. And to me, It's not like it was like all these swear words. There was no swear words. There was nothing not aggressive. It was just how devastated they were, how it's rector life and you know, all that sort of stuff. And I'm thinking, how can that be, be too mean? What do you want? What do you want her to say? Um, I just don't know.

Brad Shreve:

How do you be too mean to a man who did six grisly murders? Anyway, uh, I don't want to get into a,

Alan R Warren:

No.

Brad Shreve:

A debate on, the death penalty, but I will say I'm totally against it, but I'm a hundred percent. Murder-no parole. You're in there for the rest of your life. It, you

Alan R Warren:

Yeah. Yeah. And there's there's yeah. There's no reason to be letting people out and stuff because this guy now he's found Jesus, you know, Jesus hangs out in the cells. I don't know because it's like these killers always find him. So now he's, he's a converted. To Jesus. And he and I, and it's got a new wife and she's like, he's got a beautiful soul and all blah, blah, blah. But that's okay from a fresh point of view, maybe to her, he is a beautiful guy and maybe things are good, but you see, you can never put that back in people's lives. He, he killed six people from one family. How do you make up for that? And just because he's come to peace with his Lord. That doesn't makeit okay. And that doesn't mean that he should be allowed to come out and be your neighbor. I just, I think that's too far. I think that, you know, he's a good boy and he's been in there, give him a TV, you know, whatever, you know, to let them out. And it's just, he's done too much. You cannot, you cannot make up for that. And the thing is there's too many people still alive. That are totally, um, there. And part of it, like a lot of the family, when I'm interviewing them, they're bawling their eyes out. This, this happened in the eighties and it's like, it happened yesterday to these people. And a lot of them are only in their fifties and they're not that old. They still have a life to live and, and I'm thinking, so it's just not fair. He does not need to be out period,

Brad Shreve:

This were parents, grandparents, and their children. This, this is three generations

Alan R Warren:

Yeah. And for no reason other than he wanted to rape the two little girls, it just, it, that sets it all to me. That's like, okay, that's, you know, and, and, and, and when people say, well, yeah, uh, but he's better now. And he's claiming that he doesn't have these sexual urges for children anymore. And since he's been married, he only thinks of adult female staff. Um, okay. Let's just put that aside and say, okay, it's true. It's all true. What about the cops? He tried to kill three times. And what about the guy he ran over on some sort of bad drug deal and killed. And got a manslaughter. He has no problem taking people's lives and it's nothing to do with children. He didn't try to kill those cops because of any kids he was trying to get or anything like that. He, he killed them because he didn't care about and he needed to get rid of them. So they're there there's, can't win with that point for me, you know, it's like, no, You know, and again, if you could you imagine being one of the cousins or one of the family members too, you're 50 years old and then, you know, he's out and he's living in the same city as you again,

Brad Shreve:

No, I can't imagine that

Alan R Warren:

that's, that's just, that's just too much. It's too much. I will never ever agree with letting that man out, but who am I.

Brad Shreve:

Wow. So what's coming next from you. I. think you have a new book coming.

Alan R Warren:

Well, I've got two, uh, I got a project that I've been doing and what happened was I'm doing Killer Queen. Killer Queen is the assembly of, gay killers. Um, now this is what it is. It's a sampling of the different types of, um, I've got, how do I say this? It's their psychological profile and I've got some of their interviews with the, um, Psychiatrists and kind of, um, their, what they went through as a child and then what they did. And it's, so it's not really focusing. I don't go through all these crime scenes and all that. It's more about a perspective of what makes someone kill and there's different kinds of reasons why people kill and especially when it comes to sex. And, um, so its kind of it's covering that and it's, but what I did was during that time, I found Fritz Harrmonn, who was the butcher of Hanover. And he killed 27 boys and young men raped them and killed them. And, um, I have his trial and I have his, uh, all of his own. Words and the detectives and I got a lot of the story. So I think, um, that's taken me a little longer because all of the records that come from the court and the police were all in German. So I had to have them all translated. My eyes are bleeding. No. So it takes a lot of work. And, um, so that in itself, The Butcher of Hanover will be its own standing book, but he's involved in The Killer Queen book as well. And then I think I'll write some fun stuff for change. Hope. I keep saying that, but it never happens.

Brad Shreve:

No, you're, you're used to the other stuff.

Alan R Warren:

Yeah. Well, maybe I'll try, fiction.

Brad Shreve:

I think you would be good at it based on your background.

Alan R Warren:

Oh, I don't know. I'm scared.

Brad Shreve:

It's the scary thing. I would say that.

Alan R Warren:

Well, I just don't know how you can come up with characters since he it's. I get the characters, then I have to try and figure out what happened and try to figure out how they work together and how they act. Um, people like you that write things have to. Come up with it from your own mind, your own imagination. And I don't know because I've done so many of the real things. I don't know how many would not get, how it wouldn't cross in. You know, I don't know if I can do it. I don't know, but I kind of write something here.

Brad Shreve:

Self-help book or something.

Alan R Warren:

Yeah. That's it like, I'm going to help some.

Brad Shreve:

Okay. For the listeners, I'm going to remind them. This is Alan R. Warren. My guest today. Uh, his latest book is murdered time six. And I can tell you from having read half of it, go get it. I basically read the, the investigation. I think the last half is more your investigation. If I'm right.

Alan R Warren:

yeah.

Brad Shreve:

Uh, and he's the host of House of Mystery, which covers paranormal crime, religion, science history, uh, on a variety of media outlets. It's in its 10th year on NBC in Los Angeles, Riverside Palm Springs, and other stations in then after there's it's available on his website, or pretty much anywhere you listen to podcasts. So thank you, Alan. It's been wonderful, having you on the show.

Alan R Warren:

Yeah. Thank you very much. It's been a pleasure.